An Opaque Madhesh Think Tank

If the Madhesi Think Tank is not going to make its archives public, it is of little personal interest to me. Mohi magne dhungro lukaune?

http://groups.google.com/group/madhesh-think-tank

(1)

ICG: Nepal's Faltering Peace Process
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2009/02/icg-nepals-faltering-peace-process.html

(2)

Dr. Binod has brought forth a valid point. He disagrees with my
suggestion that the archives of this google group must be public. I
think this small issue gives us an opportunity to hold a civil, open,
transparent debate on the question. People should fully express their
opinions.

I am glad we finally have a Global Madhesi Organization in Ram Shah's
leadership. But it is for the 67 members of this group to discuss and
decide, if necessary by vote, as to whether or not we should make the
archives public.

Here is my rationale.

(1) This is not a private club, this is not a family group. This is
the online watering hole for the leading Madhesis from all over the
world. By definition this group and its discussions belong to the 12
million Madhesis on the planet. These message threads are not private
emails. We can not take this group to the 12 million, but we should
take it to as many as possible, especially when it is so easy to do,
and free.

(2) I am opposed to Madhesis talking Madhesi rights with Madhesis but
expressing internalized prejudice and mental slavery and subservience
when among Pahadis. What are you afraid of?

(3) Making the archives public will get us more Madhesi readers, and
we will also get more requests from Madhesis who wish to join the
group and contribute to the discussions. We do want the widest
possible readership.

(4) I also want interested Pahadis to read these discussions. Let them
get informed of our raw feelings and opinions. Let's enlighten them as
to our issues.

(5) Just like there are very few Madhesis in the Nepal Army, in the
Nepal Police, in the state bureaucracy in Nepal, there are very few
Madhesis in the Nepali diaspora, and for the same reasons. This
particular google group so far has emerged as the best gathering place
for those few. A wider readership will enhance the quality of
discussions here.

(6) Too much is at stake as work gets done on the constitution. We
stand next to a loud, vocal, prejudiced Pahadi majority in the
diaspora. We have to fight back with words and ideas. This google
group could play a key role in securing the One Terai, One Pradesh.

(7) Let's go mass based.

(3)

Access: Only members can view group content

I just found out that this tank has gone opaque again. Why?

If there are members of this think tank that are opposed to keeping
the content of the discussions here public, they should participate in
a discussion on the topic and convince the rest of us as to their
rationale. This super elitism if offensive. 50 leading Madhesis in the
world get together online but wish to discuss things in a way that
denies access to other Madhesis who might manage to come online. That
is beyond weird.

The decision making process is flawed. Lobbying through private phone
calls! People should have open discussions.

(4)

(1)

Because this think tank's archives are now in public, I have linked to
it from my Nepal blog. See top right:
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com Now this think tank performs the
same function for my Nepal blog that Twitter does for my Tech N Biz
blog: http://technbiz.blogspot.com

(2)

Amit Shah: ".....included the word Women, Adibashi/Janjati but
intentionally excluded the word *MADHESHI* ignoring the fact of
madheshi movement and condition in Nepal as well as in abroad."

This is an important observation. If there had been no anti-Madhesi
prejudice in Nepal there would have been 10,000 Madhesis in New York
today. The first 10,000 Pahadis I am going to meet in NYC, I am going
to think they took seats that belonged to Madhesis. Since the Nepali
diaspora is mostly a Pahadi diaspora, we can expect a major sentiment
against the sound One Terai, One Pradesh idea. We have to counter
that. This think tank could play a key role.

(3)

Tara. I learned a few weeks back that he is now NAC president.
Congrats. This looks good on NYC Nepalis. One third of the Nepalis in
the US are in NYC. Good to see the leadership has finally shifted to
the city. Now I learn he is also chair of the NRNA-NCC America. I am
learning for the first time that such a coordination council has
finally materialized in the US as well. That is great news. It is
possible at some time some Nepali in the US will lead the global NRN
movement, but for that to happen it had been important for the Nepalis
in America to get integrated with the global NRN first. For the
longest time, the NRN organization faced resistance in America because
a Madhesi was at the top.

I have tussled with Tara at times in the past on three issues - (a)
the need for an umbrella organization for the 30 plus Nepali
organizations in New York Metro, or alternately getting them all to
become members of NAC itself, (b) democracy, (c) transparency - that
some have tried to portray as some kind of a personality clash,
because there is more drama in that suggestion.
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2007/08/democracy-transparency-and-nepali.html

I still would like to emphasize the importance of democracy and
transparency for the Nepalis to earn their due political rights in NYC
and at the national level. This is about immigrant rights. Too much of
the Nepali diaspora bonding is tied to the happenings in Nepal and too
little to the rights of the Nepalis in their host countries.

What I am getting at is Nepalis should have the right to vote in New
York city elections based on residency, because you pay utility bills.
The Irish had that in Boston 150 years ago. You don't have to be a
citizen, you don't have to have a green card.

In terms of basic rights in host countries, it is much worse for the
Nepalis in the gulf states, in Malaysia, other places.

When you emphasize democracy and transparency, you also make it
possible for the diaspora organizations to go mass based. Right now
there is too much living room talk, cliquish, self-defeating.

(4)

A few weeks back Jay Mandal forwarded me this email about the
constitution. I told him I had a direct channel with Madhav Nepal on
the constitution work. That is the beauty of having a global digital
democracy organization: http://hamnep.googlepages.com and having been the only full timer in the diaspora behind the three revolutions in
Nepal: April 2006, January-February 2007, February 2008.
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com

I have been one of the earliest to start work on a constitution. What
I have proposed would be the shortest, most progressive constitution
of any country.
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2007/11/proposed-constitution.html

(5)

https://twitter.com/paramendra/status/1235248689

(6)

https://twitter.com/paramendra/status/1227962213 Steve Case AOL Founder
https://twitter.com/paramendra/status/1227950181 Padmasree CTO of Cisco
Joe Trippi, Dean 2004 Campaign Manager
http://twitter.com/JoeTrippi/statuses/1221127774
http://twitter.com/paramendra/statuses/1221187540
Huffington Post, top political blog in America
http://twitter.com/huffpost/statuses/1221127779

(7)

I am not opposed to being liberal about who to let join the group and
who not to. I think anyone so far has had the option to come to the
MTT site and make a request with the administrator saying they wish to
join. They can write a paragraph introducing themselves and making a
case as to why they need to be allowed in. That arrangement has always
been in place.

But not everyone wants to write and discuss. Most people seem to
prefer to just read. Or there would be a ton of comments at my blog.

(8)

Access http://groups.google.com/group/madhesh-think-tank/about
Only members can view group content
Only members can view group members list
People can request an invitation to join
Members can create and edit pages
Members can upload files
Only members can post

I can see why only select members may join this think tank, otherwise
things would go out of hand, and the quality of the conversation would
go downhill. But it makes no sense to not allow anyone and everyone to
view the archives. There are many people who might not qualify to join
this think tank, but who should have every right to follow the
discussions here. Our current arrangement is undemocratic and opaque.
It is too cliquish. "Only members can view group content." I request
the group administrator Bijay Raut to please make the archives public.
Thanks.

(9)

(1) Leaders like Yadav-Tripathy-Mahato should learn to address Pahadi
crowds in Nepali because it is time for the three (plus) Madhesi
parties to get unified and expand into all 75 districts.
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2009/01/unification-of-madhesi-parties.html

(2) It is unrealistic to expect the East West railway line to connect
all the populous Terai towns. Further south you go from the Chure,
worse is the flood problem during the monsoon. Also, this is not a
railway line just for the Madhesi, but for all of Nepal, actually
especially for the hill districts. So the railways line should be as
close to the Chure as possible, just like the highway. Actually it
might not be a bad idea to have common bridges for both the highway
and the railway.

Provided the right (non-corrupt, transparent, speedy, bold, capable)
political leadership, this railway line could materialize fast through
BOOT. Build, Own, Operate, Transfer. You go for FDI. There is plenty
of money in the global marketplace. The same applies to the mega hydel
projects.

(3) I liked Sukhdev Shah saying he wishes to be an ambassador of all
Nepalis. That is the next goal for the Madhesi Movement: national
leadership.

(10)

I wish Subhashii had provided the web address for this piece of news.
But from the little information I have, I would like to express my
reaction to the event.

What was the event? Was this at the UML convention? Were Mahato, Yadav
and Tripathy invited guests? If this was at the UML convention, and if
the vast majority of those in the audience were people whose primary
language is Nepali, and we all know Mahato speaks fluent Nepali, it
might have been a good idea for Mahato to have addressed the crowd in
Nepali on his own.

On the other hand, more than 15 years ago Mirja Dil Sad Beg, then a
RPP MP, addressed a mass meeting in Sidhupalchok in Hindi.

The three Madhesi leaders speaking in Nepali does not take away from
the fact that Hindi is the natural link language in the Terai.

Another way to look at this is that there is a certain Pahadi
hostility to the Hindi language. That hostility needs to subside.
___________________________________________________________________________
Butwal...... followed by disgruntled crowd against Mahato for
addressing in Hindi, Upendra Yadav and Hridyesh Tripathi spoke in
Nepali. ...... the mass meeting and walked out. There is a need
for UMDF to be reactivated. .

Does anyone of us hold any data to prove scientifically which language
is the most feasible one to join the people of Madhesh speaking
maithili, bhojpuri, awadhi, tharu etc. However, it is now time to
integrate English in Madhesh.

Subhash Shah
London

Mahato act angers crowd
Feb 16 - The mass jeered when General Secretary of the Nepal
Sadhbhavana Party Rajendra Mahato started waxing eloquent in Hindi
instead of Nepali. Despite the protest, Mahato went on, saying, "I
don't think it's difficult to understand Hindi. Why are you objecting
to the use of Hindi when you are living in Madhesh?" "In new Nepal,
all groups should have representation," he went on, "New Nepal should
accept people, who speak different languages." A member of the
convention management committee, Ramnath Dhakal, tried to pacify the
crowd, in vain. It was then that Mahato gave in to the crowd's demand.
"This kind of mentality will not help build new Nepal," Mahato
concluded in Nepali.

(11)

This daily digest from the Madhesi Think Tank today has been my
favorite to date for all the congratulatory messages to Dr. Sukhdev
Shah. It is a big deal, a huge deal that the Nepali ambassadors to the
US and UK are both Madhesi for the first time ever. This is a tectonic
shift.

When I was a little kid, we used to hear of Dr. Shah as someone who
was at the World Bank/IMF in the US. Then he showed up on stage with
Krishna Prasad Bhattarai in Janakpur at a Barah Bigha mass meeting
after the 1990 mass movement as someone who had helped pay for some of
BP's medical expenses. I was there at the mass meeting. He spoke mixed
Maithili-Hindi-English-Nepali. A few years later I attended his talk
program at TU in Kirtipur. I was in the back, I did not get to talk to
him one on one. He at the time said it was worse for the Madhesis in
Nepal than the blacks in America. A few years later we got to know
each other through online interactions. The first time he emailed me
the way I felt was similar to this:
http://technbiz.blogspot.com/2009/01/mitch-kapor-now-following-me-on-twitter.html
I was elated.

And he was a rare Madhesi who took affront at my mistreatment at the
storm-in-a-teacup Google Group called the ND Forum.
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2007/02/kiran-sitoula-is-short-fat-idiot.html

Dr. Shah became qualified when it was near impossible for Madhesis to
get qualified. And if it had not been for the anti-Madhesi prejudice
he would have been ambassador to the US a long time ago. Better late
than never. But we have not arrived yet. There is much work that still
remains.

This is a symbolic achievement. But this helps us go for the big
achievements for the masses. This is a step in the right direction. We
have to celebrate this. I look forward to a felicitation program in
his honor here in New York City.

We have to keep pushing the limits. We have to keep looking for new
goals. http://madhesi.blogspot.com/2009/02/broadband-and-madhesi-liberation.html

(12)

Broadband And Madhesi Liberation
http://madhesi.blogspot.com/2009/02/broadband-and-madhesi-liberation.html

(13)

I think this Google Group is a pretty good place to start work on the
new constitution. I think Nepal should shoot for the shortest, most
progressive constitution in the world. The details come in the form of
laws and bills later on. This is what I have proposed since a long
time ago. What do you all think?

http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2009/01/unification-of-madhesi-parties.html
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2007/11/proposed-constitution.html
http://demrepubnepal.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-shape-federalism.html

PS. When you send emails to this think tank, please tidy it up. Only
send your writing, not the emails of everyone else in that threat
conversation, because those are already posted before you replied.

(14)

Web 5.0 Is Da Bomb
http://technbiz.blogspot.com/2009/02/web-50-is-da-bomb.html

Broadband And Madhesi Liberation

Bahut Madhesi kah rahe hain, ye to rajnitik kam kar raha tha, ab ye kahta hai businessman ban gaye. Career change kyun kiya? Career change nahin kiya, bhai. Internet access is the voting right for this 21st century. Sab log Amrika nahin aa sakte hain, lekin America mein jo educational, business opportunities hain wo sabo ko broadband ke marfat le jaya ja sakta hai. Ye sirf Madhesh, ya Nepal, ya India level ki baat nahin hai. Ye pure Third World ki baat hai, ye Global South ki baat hai. Mahatma Gandhi ne Indian independence ki baat ki, Martin Luther King ne kaha voting rights for black people. Lekin wo to half century purani baat hai. India independent ho chuka. America mein blacks ko voting rights hi kya, kala admi Obama rashtrapati hi ban gaya. Purani manjil mil jaye to nayi manjil khojni parti hai.

Ab prasn ye hai ki First World aur Third World, yane ke West aur Global South ke beech jo itni badi khai hai, us khai ko kam kaise karein? Us ka uttar hai broadband. Ek samay aisa ayega jab ki First World, Third World naam ki koi classification banki nahin rah jayegi.

Jab pahli Madhesi kranti huwee to New York mein Ashok Gurung ne New School mein karyakram kiya. Lekin jo Madhesi gan hain wo Tara Bahun ke pichhe pichhe chale gaye Long Island Satya Narayan ka pooja karne. Kaisi ajeeb baat ho gayee? Are yaar, Nepal mein log shahid ho rahe hain, aur tumhe abhi hi pooja karni thi Satya Narayan ki? Ek hota hai prejudice, ek hota hai internalized prejudice. Mental slavery jo hai wo internalized prejudice ka hi judwa bhai hai.

IC

Nepal mein Madhesi ke prati bhedbhav na hota to New York ke 30,000 Nepali mein kam se kam 10,000 Madhesi hote. Lekin muskil se 100 bhi nahin hain. To New York mein maine dekha hai Jewish log bahut hain, Tel Aviv se jyada Jewish New York mein hain. To un logo ko bhi bahut sataya gaya, 2000 sal tak sataya, Holocaust mein to adha ko jala hi diya Hitler ne, abhi bhi anti-Semitism hai. To uske response mein wo log ek dusre ke extra close ho jate hain. Usi tarah hum New York ke Madhesiyo ko chahiye extra close ho jayen. Us closeness ka early stage main anubhav kar raha hoon. Wo khushi ki baat hai.

Lekin Madhesi kranti ka nabj real time mein na padh sakne bale ab next step ko miss kar rahe hain. Next step hai Madhesi partiyon ka unification. Us ke baad ka step hai national ambition. Usi tarah aap next step, next step karte jayenge to aap ko meri tech startup samajh mein aa jayegi.

Mere ko London ka ek investor contact kiya, maine use contact nahin kiya, usi ne mujhe Facebook par contact kiya. Ki mere ko aap ke company mein invest karni hai. Maine online ja ke check kiya, o jis venture capital firm ke liye kaam karta hai to us ke bare mein jankari li. Bahut bada firm hai maloom huwa. Main thora hichak gaya. Kahen to maine late 1990s se hi ye dekha hai. Jo investor bahut paisa invest karte hain o kabhi kabhi aap ka valuation kharab kar denge. Kahenge lo panch million, aur badle mein mujhe company ka 30% ownership do. Wahan mamla gadbad ho jati hai.

Ek huwa karta tha Kozmo.com. Manhattan mein aap DVD, pizza order karo online ja ke, wo aap ko deliver karti thi. Us ne late 90s mein bahut fundraising ki, lagbhag 200 million. Lekin us ke founders ne kya galtee ki, company un investor ko de diya. Yani ki founder hai CEO, lekin ab wo owner nahin, 200 million raise karne ke baad ek jobholder ho ke rah gaya. Wo galtee main duhrana nahin chahta. Huwa kya wo company dub gaya. Ek hote hain venture capitalist, ek hote hain vulture capitalist. Wo jo London ka investor mere to contact kiya, usko main vulture capitalist nahin bol raha hun. Usne mujh se ye promise karbaya ki when you are ready for round three, promise me you will call me. To maine kaha I promise.

IC

Bahut log ye round 1, round 2, round 3 bala baat nahin samajhte hai. Hum Madhesi pichhde jaat hain. Kirana dokan samajhte hain, paan dokan samajhte hain, tech startup nahin samajhte hain. Kirana dokan mein kya hota hai? Poonji lagao, jao saman kino wholesale mein, uske baad bechna shuru kar do, revenue aane lagta hai. Lekin tech startup mein waisa nahin hota hai. Round 1 paisa raise karo, round 1 ka kaam karo. Round 1 ka kaam dikha ke us ke bal par round 2 paisa raise karo. Round 2 kaam karo. Usi tarah round 3 fundraising karo. Round 4 mein ja ke balla balla revenue ane lagta hai. Tab ja ke round 5, 6 mein ja ke company ko stock market par list karo. Waise hota hai. Ye kirana dokan thore hai, ye to tech startup hai.

Log kahenge London ka investor jo millions invest karta us ko wait, wait bol diya is aadmi ne, aur hum logo se do hajar, panch hajar mag raha hai. To wo aap samajhne ka prayas kijiye. Ye round 1, round 2, round 3 ka khel hai. Agar mera round 3 secure hai to wo aap ke liye good news hai. Is ka matlab company age badhega.

Nahin to tech startup ka dusra khel hai agar company duba to aap ka paisa duba. Utna aap risk le rahe hain. Ye high risk, high gain wali baat hai. Wo to main jhooth nahin bolunga. Saf baat. Lekin nahin dubega. Late 1990s dot coms bahut dube. Ek do mein main bhi founding member tha. Lekin main kabhi bhi top byakti us samay nahin tha. Ye pahla startup hai jis mein top byakti main hoon, aur main full responsibility le ke age badh raha hoon.

IC

Kuchh Madhesi kahte hain hum to gareeb hain, paisa nahin hai, kaise invest karein? Are yaar, mera round 1 investment opportunity waise hi gareeb logon ke liye hai. Ye aap ke jindagi mein antim mauka hai jab aap ko ek aise company ke jo 10 saal ke under Nasdaq par listed rahega us ke round 1 mein aane ka invitation aap ko mil raha hai. Banki jindagi aap ko dusra mauka nahin milega.

Maine kaha jo aadmi mere round 1 mein 10,000 dollar invest karega uska 10,000 jo hai so 30 saal mein 300 million ban chooka rahega. Wo main kis ke bal par kah raha hoon? To mere se 30-40 sal pahle jo company shuru huwe, un companiyon mein round 1 mein 10,000 invest karne walo ka wahi haal huwa, 30 saal baad wo 10,000 jo hai so 300 million bana. To wo to history hai. Main badha chadha ke nahin bol raha hooon.

North America ke sab se paisa wale Nepali kahlate hain hamare Toronto ke Adityaji. Wo bhi Mahottari ke, hum bhi Mahottari ke. To unhone apna company becha Sun ko 100 million mein. Char partner the, to unko 25 million mila hoga. Us mein Toronto Film Festival bagairah mein kharcha warcha kiye, kitna banki hai wo to wo jane aur bhagban jane. Chhote mote company kharid liye jate hain, bade company Nasdaq par jate hai. Mera company Sun category ka company huwa. Wo Nasdaq par jayega. Mahottari ke aur hain, Bhatauliya ke Hari Mahaseth. To maine unko kaha, doctor ho gaye hain, talab hai saal ka 110,000, to agar Adityaji ka net worth exceed karna hai to mere company mein 10,000 invest kariye aur usko 30 saal chhod dijiye. Mahottari se sirf ek millionaire kyon ho, dusra aap bhi ho jaiye. To wo Madhesiya kanmanchhanman kiye hai. Babysitter ko paisa dete hain, mere to nahin dete hain. Jab ki main bhi to unko investment ke mamle mein babysitting hi to kar raha hoon.

Adityaji ko kaha maine bahut pahle aap 100,000 par aa jaiye. I will make you more money than Sun. Wo nahin aaye. Wo sonche honge tens of millions to hai hi mere paas, hundreds of millions le ke kya hoga? Kitna film festival sab sponsor karte rehein?

Upendraji ko ana chahiye kam se kam 10,000 mein lekin wo aaye 2,000 mein. No complaints. Maine do hi manga, to wo apne bhai Surendra ke naam se do invest kiye. Surendraji, 30 saal baad aap apna 60 million cash kar lenge.

IC

Ek hain California mein Ram Shah, sunte hain real estate main bahut kamaye huwe hain. Unko bhi offer kiya 2,000 par aa jaiye. Nahin aaye. Ratan Jha nahin aye. Ajeeb log hain. Hum ko lagta hai un dono ka gurmintee chalta hai.

Main Nobel Peace Prize 2010 ka dabedar hoon. Nobel jitna hai, jitne ke baad Larry Ellison ko approach karna hai, 30 million aap invest karo, now I need to hit production and distribution in a major way.

Agar aap round 1 mein nahin aaye to round 2, round 3 mein nahin aa sakte hain. Then you have to wait until after the company goes public. Law hai. Round 2 and on sirf license prapt investor aa sakte hain, jaise wo London wala Andy.

To main America, Canada, Russia ke Madhesiyon ko ek baar phir se apeel karta hoon aap 2K and above par mere round 1 mein aa jaiye. Nahin aaye to 10 saal ke under aap matha thokiyega. Subbhash Chandra Bose ne kaha, tum mujhe khoon do main tumhe ajadi doonga. Main to khoon nahin mang raha, sirf thora investment mang raha hoon. Tum mere round 1 mein invest karo, main tumhe national aur global level par ka equality doonga. Main tumhe malamal kar doonga.

Upendraji aur mere mein ye pharak hai ke wo bahut kiye, legend aadmi hain, lekin Nasdaq par kuchh list nahin kiye, hum karenge.

IC

Introduction
Between You and Andy Knell
Andy Knell
4:45pm September 16th
HI Paramendra,
I got your details from the “Investment Banking Professionals” network group. I work with a London based corporate finance house 'Carpe Diem Corporate'. We hold mandates for funding and investment opportunities across Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East. This includes debt, equity, and listings, as well as large and small ticket sales.
It would be very useful to know which area of IB you work in and whether it would be pertinent to share with you our current summary of mandates.
Thank you
Andy Knell
Paramendra Bhagat
9:26pm September 17th
I have a young tech startup. Probably not of interest to you unless you help raise seed money.
Andy Knell
9:48am September 18th
We will consider seed capital business on an individual basis. You can see our range of services at: www.carpediemcorporate.co.uk
If you would like to discuss this further feel free to send me an executive summary: ______@carpediemcorporate.co.uk
Paramendra Bhagat
4:01pm September 18th
Sure. I am in.
Andy Knell
6:16pm September 18th
ok thanks.
----Original Message-----
From: Paramendra Bhagat [mailto:paramendra--gmail.com]
Sent: 19 September 2007 04:31
To: Andy Knell
Subject: Re: Your Facebook Email
http://www.geocities.com/paramendra/damien.html
Andy. I will make you rich. My IC company will define the next era of computing. Right now all I have room for is 100K in round 1. Seed money round. I burn that, reappraise and then go for round 2. Can you chip in 100K in a few steps, as in 10K, then 20K, and so on starting right away?
I am going to be bigger than Michael Dell. It will take me 10 years to get there, but I will get there.
Andrew Knell
8:00 am (10 hours ago)
to Paramendra Bhagat
date Sep 21, 2007 8:00 AM
subject RE: Your Facebook Email
Hi,
Have reviewed that link - we may be able to assist at the 3rd round of fundraising before this the numbers are too small for our client base.
Kind regards
Andrew
A Knell
for and on behalf of
Carpe Diem Corporate
E-mail: ______@carpediemcorporate.co.uk
Website: www.carpediemcorporate.co.uk
Corporate Finance Specialists, Company Acquisitions & Sales, Global Real Estate, Corporate Recovery, Listings (Pre-IPO's, IPO's, Reversals, and Shells).

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